So long but not Goodbye

[tessa]

So... where does that leave me (and others in the same spot)? Feeling as though no matter what i will ultimately end up having to "choose" a side or will be "not as trusted" because i am still friends with so and so, etc. No one should have to go through that in a place that they love and feel secure... nothing is left if they do.

So, when that happens (and human nature i'm sure it is just a matter of time) i will leave... being once again wiser for the knowledge, friendship and love shared and mourning for lose of the same...

I hope that doesn't happen, annie. You would be dearly missed.

The only "lesson" that's been taught by all this is that cruel vindictiveness hurts more than just the target at which it was initially aimed.

[Ocean_Soul]

i have thought of many things i might say in response to these posts...

the one thing i keep coming back to is... no matter WHAT i say or HOW i say it it will be seen as "taking sides" and i will lose friendships out of it...

And honestly... THAT is what pisses me off and makes me the saddest... a catch 22 situation, no matter what is said....

I know what I would do. Whoever I thought was wrong I’d tell them that they fucked up. And if the simple fact that I think they did something wrong and made a mistake makes them question our entire relationship than I’m probably better off. For a multitude of reasons.

But that’s just me, I can be cold like that sometimes.

[Psynymph]

just_annie- nobody is asking you to choose sides. and they aren't your friends if they don't choose to respect your desire to remain "neutral".
nobody should have to "pick sides" as it were. either you agree there is something wrong or you disagree. but anyone that chooses to remain neutral should do just that. i realize that the need to choose sides may be felt but ultimately it's your decision and no one else's and that includes choosing to remain neutral.

cariad- i agree with what you said wholeheartedly which is why again i apologized for posting this, though i don't regret my decision. i know this thread in particular is going to have to be carefully watched and monitored.

Wolfscout- go Wolf!

baby_girl- you little badass

[rach]

i have thought of many things i might say in response to these posts...

the one thing i keep coming back to is... no matter WHAT i say or HOW i say it it will be seen as "taking sides" and i will lose friendships out of it...

And honestly... THAT is what pisses me off and makes me the saddest... a catch 22 situation, no matter what is said....

These are my thoughts and said with a lot more coherency than I could manage. It's very difficult when such things as this happen because the ripples spread a long way. All I keep thinking is What a Mess! Which is hardly helpful and I am at a loss as to know what to do.

rach

[orchid]

i have just spent the better part of an hour reading and re-reading these posts.

i have only very rarely visited the chat room and not for a long, long time. i have no idea what incidents any of these posts refer to, nor do i want to know.

but i do know this...this forum has changed drastically in the time since i became a member. i used to come in here to pages of new posts and tons of people online. now i come in to only a few posts, mostly jokes (nothing wrong with this, there's some good ones in there but its not the same) and very few people online. Alot of the old regulars are gone now and there seemed to be a mass exodus at one point.

im sure the reasons for this are varied and no one's business but the people involved but the fact remains that there very obviously was some sort of serious shake up from which the forum has yet to recover.

it makes me sad. this is an excellent place to come and learn and explore. its just too bad that it seems to be dying. i hope it gets better soon.

Psy...i know i saw the address to your site somewhere recently but i cant remember where. would you please PM me with it so that i may join? i am not in your area but i have always enjoyed reading your posts.

respectfully,
orchid

[goodgirl_85]

While I know nothing of any conspiracy or whatever you may want to call whatever it is that is going on, I have something to say. While this name does not show it I have been a member here for... awhile.. honestly i cant remember when i signed up. It was less than a year ago, maybe august?

I came here after googling some such words involving bdsm because my Ex Master and I were having problems, and I had no one around that would understandthe D/s relationship I was in.

I came into chat, honestly used chat more than the forums. Was taken in almost instantly by those who were there. Some of whom have helped me greatly and may not know it. This place became like a second home to me, with people that shared similar interests and soon most came to be like family. Better than my own family even, some members of which would most likely disown me if they knew I was involved in this lifestyle.

However, because I was away visiting my mother for almost two months and chose to not be online for awhile, I seem to have missed whatever it is that is going on. I will say though, that when I came back I noticed that it was almost entirely new faces in the chat, and those I did know--well some of them werent as friendly, and others were.

People say people you talk to online cant be your real friends- well screw that. Some people I have had strictly online relationships with are some of the ones i will never forget and will always hold dear in my heart. I am saddened that this post had to be started. But as Psy said... it had to be.

Yes delia has a point about the owners decision being ultimate (and this is no way a dis or insult to AC38 please note, it goes for all forums and chats in the world, however the person with the final say should take into consideration that not everybody gets along. Hell if everyone did thousands of our brothers and sisters and fathers and mothers wouldnt be getting killed overseas.

And as someone else said, ALL personal matters between owner and chatters should be put aside BY BOTH PARTIES when a situation involving any action whether it be warning or banning.

As for the forums I can't really say that things have changed, because only since my screen name change have I become really active in them.

I think however, that as the chat is said to be a COMPLETLY SEPERATE thing from the forums that a forum ban should NEVER be because of a chat ban unless of course the situation has spilled over into the forums in a way that disregards the FORUMS rules.

And there will always be newbies coming into a chat room. There will be times when the regulars will all but disappear and new ones emerge. This happens in any chat community.

But, where I stand as i read this post, is that if most of the people that made chat once seem like home to me are no longer going then there is no reason for me to go back.

I am not taking sides, as i dont know any of the story except what Red posted. And I can honestly, see her post being deleted (sorry i love you red) to try to discourage "flaming" The fact that this post has been allowed to carry out shows the people in charge of the forums are fair as much as possible.

It is sad that some people who are legal adults can not behave as such- and again that statement is not just about this site. I work retail- I deal with people everyday all day and I know that not all adults act like adults.

One more thing, as it has been said before i only want to reiterate the fact, that the gods of this forum should perhaps look into the reasons behind why the post has been started in the first place, and why so many have responded strongly to it.

girl

[_ID_]

If you disrespect chat, you will be banned.

This statement I think is rather telling. Shouldn't the chat follow the same rules of flaming as the forms, since they are affiliated however separate. Banning a person simply because they don't respect is rather heavy handed I believe. I think disrespect, and flaming are different things altogether. God knows I have been disrespectful on here, but have avoided flaming (as far as I see it). Even with that, I haven't been banned, nor warned about my behavior. From the way I read the post, had I done the same thing in the chat room, I would have been banned by now.

Perhaps this thread will be an eye opener for the overall admin of the domain bdsmlibrary.com

[Widget]

I don't really know if this is the entirely right place for this as the chat room is another part of the site under different ownership. I wonder if they would have reason to see it unless they were directed to here. I totally agree with the right to post difference of opinion and so far despite what could become volitile, I wish to say that everyone for the most part is trying to be repsectful of each other.

People do bond in chat because they are so instantly able to commmunicate and I have no doubt there are some very strong connections that began in the chat room. I hope that airing this out will cause some smoothing of troubled waters as I enjoy comeing in the chat room too and I have missed some old names and faces.

[Psynymph]

First off, i don't know where this mudslinging occured. Obviously it wasn't in this post since cariad clearly stated that if any mudslinging occured the post would be closed and/or deleted.

So apparently only one person perceives this mudslinging.

delia, we are voicing our opinions. if you don't like what you read, feel free not to read it. but not a single insult to either you or AC has been uttered on this thread nor will there be.

Grow up? This thread is nothing but a mature discussion of a problem i have perceived and other's opinions on it. Some agree, some disagree.

Again, if you don't care for this particular discussion, feel free to not read it. You have that right.

delia, as far as i'm concerned, as far as MY personal opinion, you are the only one to come close to "flaming" and insults.

[ElectricBadger]

First off, thank you Psy for bringing up this thread. Thank you Delia for responding. It's a difficult topic, but sometimes difficult conversations need to happen to work things out. Hopefully we're all attempting to do that as we participate in this -- not just prove our own points, but understand others' and respect their disagreement. The true test of freedom is allowing people to be wrong

Thank you all, also, for remaining respectful: clearly tensions are high, but it reflects well on you all that we're concentrating on issues, not individuals (with a couple teensy exceptions )

Remember that winning a debate is rarely about being 'right': it is about mature, logical, focused explanations of different points of view. Appealing to members and staff to frequent the chat room or seek to change it is more likely to succeed with calm and politeness than wrath.

[Warbaby1943]

Very interesting thread. Makes me happy I have never become involved in the chat room.

[Dragon's muse]

Very interesting thread. Makes me happy I have never become involved in the chat room.

Ditto

[MrWonderful]

I have no particular experience in conflict resolution, but I will gladly mediate anything that needs to be mediated. If nothing else, I hope my age gives me some standing to make this offer.

[his_delilah (GS)]

Wow... I'm amazed..
I sure have missed something.
And I so regret the painfull feelings of everyone involved here.
But I want to say, I am really thankfull for the mods, admins and whoever helps this chat and forum going on.
Maybe that's because I never had problems with any of them. But I think they work hard to keep all the good things going.
So don't forget that maybe you are pissed off now and NEVER EVER want to come to the chat and all that, the admins here aren't people that want you to piss of and annoy you.
I think it is important personal problems have to be talked out with the persons involved.
Power is a strange and diffucult thing. It will be always there and there will always problems around it.

Well delia, AC38/Torq, cariad I just want to thank you very much for your hard work an please keep it up.

Delilah

[Rhabbi]

Wow... I'm amazed..
I sure have missed something.
And I so regret the painfull feelings of everyone involved here.
But I want to say, I am really thankfull for the mods, admins and whoever helps this chat and forum going on.
Maybe that's because I never had problems with any of them. But I think they work hard to keep all the good things going.
So don't forget that maybe you are pissed off now and NEVER EVER want to come to the chat and all that, the admins here aren't people that want you to piss of and annoy you.
I think it is important personal problems have to be talked out with the persons involved.
Power is a strange and diffucult thing. It will be always there and there will always problems around it.

Well delia, AC38/Torq, cariad I just want to thank you very much for your hard work an please keep it up.

Delilah

I went to add my support here with delilah. I do not know what the details are, nor am I really trying to find out. But the mods here have a tough job and I think they do an excellant one.

[his_delilah (GS)]

LOL
That .
Making a point, Rhabbi?
LOL

(Sorry for this lilttle off topic one...)

[Jadetiger]

Psynymph,
Thank you this topic. it has been long over due. My experiences in chat have had an impact on my forum posts as well. I used to live in chat as well as share my bdsm experiences on the forum. I rarely go to chat anymore do to the issues mentioned by many. I did stop by recently but realized noting had changed. It is very sad that a place that once was home for many is no longer so. I personally choose not to be apart of a chat where bullying and intimidation is used in the guise of respect so someone else can control me or others. I am not a rude person by nature so watching what was happening in chat was more than I could stomach. So it is my choice not to go there any more.

[Guest 91108]

Psynymph,
Thank you this topic. it has been long over due. My experiences in chat have had an impact on my forum posts as well. I used to live in chat as well as share my bdsm experiences on the forum. I rarely go to chat anymore do to the issues mentioned by many. I did stop by recently but realized noting had changed. It is very sad that a place that once was home for many is no longer so. I personally choose not to be apart of a chat where bullying and intimidation is used in the guise of respect so someone else can control me or others. I am not a rude person by nature so watching what was happening in chat was more than I could stomach. So it is my choice not to go there any more.

That is how I see it. Those who do not bend and "fall in line" are soon gone.

From the chat rules page.

CHAT RULES & GUIDELINES:

ROOM ADMINISTRATOR: AC38 (XXXX)

First and foremost show RESPECT! If you do not use respect at all times you will lose your chat privileges!

....

Respect can have many levels...
I think respect is a very objective thing on the boards.
Also Respect is not always a certainty but is something that has to be earned.
There is only a very modest level of respect that is given freely to anyone. Civil respect. This is a level of respect that every one gets. Even people you meet on the street or at a store. And it works both ways, that is something often forgotten .
But it would seem that most ( those who have higher levels/positions) want the kind of Respect that is given to Royalty or Honored as those who have done something extraordinary are ... That just isn't going to happen in an online deal. IF it does happen it has to be earned. Not demanded.
Respect of a higher level is one which must be earned to be maintained and that is the problem here. It isn't earned and maintained daily.
Respect is given when it is deemed able and desireable, not because someone says you will respect me in a manner which pushes them above others ...
Another thing.. Respect is not given to things. they do not do anything to earn respect. No thing, whether that be a book or an idea or a situation is worthy of respect IMO. It is silly to demand such.
Think of it like this :
" You will respect my plate of sphagetti. "
see how odd that sounds ?

I also find it very odd that many see something wrong and others don't see anything at all.
makes me wonder ....

Ok i will end my long post on this and hope someone finds it valuable.

[Domtotrain]

I have hesitated to reply to this thread but I do feel strongly about 3 things.

1. Psynymph--What an amazing person you are! You are so open and forthcoming with your feelings and experiences that you are inspiring. I have read more than one of your posts with mouth agape and brain on overload. As I continue this response you may look at things just a little differently.

2. delia/Torq/AC38--d, for a 24 year old woman you are brilliant. Highly educated and by that I dont just mean schooled. I have watched when you decided to take someone under your wing and the advice and care you give is inspirational. It is sometimes confusing to realize that we are all different people at different times. There is an underlying character and yours is admirable even in the most taxing of situations. AC more which later.

3. cariad--There is perhaps no finer lady to grace these pages. When you become someones friend even they don't know how much that means to you. You are the epitome of what humans strive to become. Knowing that you will only get better I marvel.

I too, rarely frequent chat these days. There was a time I lived to be with my friends there. Not so anymore. Partially, because I have outgrown the need for the support and validation that I am OK, I am not weird, there are others like me and they are great people. So, it is possible to have my wants, needs, and desires and still be an OK person. Also, there are many more sites with chats that people frequent. In fact, I can think of 4 off hand that many of the library people can be spotted at. Yes, these days they are more often spotted at those other sites than they are here, but every one of them that I have discussed the partial exodus with longs to be back here, with things as they were. I am not sure what that means really as nothing has really changed in the couple of years I have been here except the software and a few mods here and there. Note to AC.....anyone who knows anything about computers knows there are plenty of ways around your bans. I will not discuss them here as I dont want to encourage any form of mutiny or the usurptation of your authority. Still, you must ask yourself why this is all happening now. Where there is smoke........? You may write it all off as disgruntled or spurned users, but somehow it goes even deeper. Why might I ask (rhetorically) do people seem to fly off the deep end? delia's point of less than 1% being banned is valid, still why does it project such vehemence? Why are those left behind still so emotionally affected? I think we would all agree that the key to a BDSM relationship is communication. Psy shouldn't be critizied for her attempt to share her feelings and delia should be commended for addressing the unspoken questions head on. Is anything resolved or is it just a purging of pent up emotions? Yes, you are entitled to be autocratic, however, I have seen you be the bigger man on more than one occasion. Is there an alternative? Perhaps a review committee? I am not suggesting this only providing potential options. delias point of only banning someone after being warned to stop more than once is somewhat telling. I personally, know of one banned person who admitted to me that that is exactly what happened. Is it possible when someone gets on a rant to just ban them for a day for a "cool down" period? Maybe you feel that is more than you want to do but it is a good alternative. It is your chat you may do with it as you please, but I will tell you that other sites are being bolstered by the defections. Don't care? Ok, that is your perogotive, but from my observaton that is truly uncharacteristic as I believe you want an atmosphere of unity not the divisiveness we are now seeing. Action is required, Sir.

I too, think that chat adds so much to this site that it is inseperable from the forums. I have many friends from here that would not be friends if it were not fot the immediate communications afforded us in the chat room. The give and take, the question and answer, the joke and laughter, is just too important to take seperately. What does it say about a site that is not committed to providing the best experience for it's users? When someone gets banned it doesn't just happen to them, it affects many and therein lies the reason for seeking a solution.

Those who know me, know I could go on and on for pages, but I think I have covered the major points.

cariad, feel free to edit as much or as little as you see fit.....I have implicit faith and trust in you. Oh, and point in fact, that was established during many, many conversations in chat.

Respectfully submitted by,

DTT

[Warbaby1943]

That is how I see it. Those who do not bend and "fall in line" are soon gone.

From the chat rules page.


Respect can have many levels...
I think respect is a very objective thing on the boards.
Also Respect is not always a certainty but is something that has to be earned.
There is only a very modest level of respect that is given freely to anyone. Civil respect. This is a level of respect that every one gets. Even people you meet on the street or at a store. And it works both ways, that is something often forgotten .
But it would seem that most ( those who have higher levels/positions) want the kind of Respect that is given to Royalty or Honored as those who have done something extraordinary are ... That just isn't going to happen in an online deal. IF it does happen it has to be earned. Not demanded.
Respect of a higher level is one which must be earned to be maintained and that is the problem here. It isn't earned and maintained daily.
Respect is given when it is deemed able and desireable, not because someone says you will respect me in a manner which pushes them above others ...
Another thing.. Respect is not given to things. they do not do anything to earn respect. No thing, whether that be a book or an idea or a situation is worthy of respect IMO. It is silly to demand such.
Think of it like this :
" You will respect my plate of sphagetti. "
see how odd that sounds ?

I also find it very odd that many see something wrong and others don't see anything at all.
makes me wonder ....

Ok i will end my long post on this and hope someone finds it valuable.

Don't know about valuable but possibly gave me a little more insight to the problems being discussed in this thread if I use my imagination and read between the lines. Since I have no idea what the hell anyone is referring to, yet still find this thread very interesting, any little hint helps.

[goodgirl_85]

Ok i will end my long post on this and hope someone finds it valuable.

If that post was long, mine must be a novel. Lol.

Yes, the whole respect thing is weird in the chat room.

Without mentioning names I will tell a situation in which I was personally involved.

Someone in the chat room, who considers themselve a Master, when sort of new (at least to me), made a comment to another Dom that I was laughing with and having a very good conversation about me. I believe it was along the lines of Dont give her a massage, she doesnt deserve it, shes just a sub. Yes everyone has different veiws, but I have seen this person whom I have know respect for at all make other derrogatory disrespectful comments to others, and has on SEVERAL occassions made them to me. I am not on to go tattle, so I didn't. But one particularly nasty comment got me, and I said something back, like I normally do, but I kept it going. I was pissed.

I was told to knock it off and to ignore him. In the chat room, while nothing was said to him. Gee, I wonder why? Because he is a Master? I should hope not. I hope that something was said to him in private. However, going back after that, he has still made more subtle disrespectful comments. Yes, i should report them. BUt when a mod... even the owner is in the room talking, and reading, what good would it do to report such a thing?

Makes one think.

[Jadetiger]

That is how I see it. Those who do not bend and "fall in line" are soon gone.

From the chat rules page.


Respect can have many levels...
I think respect is a very objective thing on the boards.
Also Respect is not always a certainty but is something that has to be earned.
There is only a very modest level of respect that is given freely to anyone. Civil respect. This is a level of respect that every one gets. Even people you meet on the street or at a store. And it works both ways, that is something often forgotten .
But it would seem that most ( those who have higher levels/positions) want the kind of Respect that is given to Royalty or Honored as those who have done something extraordinary are ... That just isn't going to happen in an online deal. IF it does happen it has to be earned. Not demanded.
Respect of a higher level is one which must be earned to be maintained and that is the problem here. It isn't earned and maintained daily.
Respect is given when it is deemed able and desireable, not because someone says you will respect me in a manner which pushes them above others ...
Another thing.. Respect is not given to things. they do not do anything to earn respect. No thing, whether that be a book or an idea or a situation is worthy of respect IMO. It is silly to demand such.
Think of it like this :
" You will respect my plate of sphagetti. "
see how odd that sounds ?

I also find it very odd that many see something wrong and others don't see anything at all.
makes me wonder ....

Ok i will end my long post on this and hope someone finds it valuable.

Glad I am not the only one who knows the difference between common courtesy and respect. No one has a right to demand respect but everyone has the right to be treated with common courstey. If someone wants me to fall in line then they had better live up to their own standards. I am not one for following someone I don’t respect.

[Tasker]

I do know the story behind the bans from chat. I do know that those that have been banned have been so for the following reasons: Breach of rules, deliberate attempts at disrupting the chat and false (read deliberate flaming) accusations made by disgruntled chatters who decided to play the sides game after believing deliberate lies from those that were banned.

Personally I mod to have the place as somewhere that folks can come and enjoy, discuss the lifestyle, and have fun with friends. Those that want to play silly games are welcome to enjoy each others company in the new chat they have found.

And as for the rumor that delia impersonates AC38. sorry folks, that is not true. I know for a fact that at least two of the occasions that delia has been accused of impersonating AC38 by a former chatter (and yes I have seen the log of that chat) I was talking to AC at the time.

[~hellish one~]

Personally I mod to have the place as somewhere that folks can come and enjoy, discuss the lifestyle, and have fun with friends. Those that want to play silly games are welcome to enjoy each others company in the new chat they have found.

I was going to let this one go, but I just kept coming back to it and gritting my teeth. I'm actually surprised it hasn't been edited, but...~shrugs~

Tasker, your reasons for wanting to moderate a chat room are good and very admirable. I think the problem is that there are quite a few of us who have stopped enjoying chat and having fun with friends, especially if said friends are getting banned. If they deserve to get banned, then so be it. By all means, ban them. But, I will never, for one second, believe that Red deserved it. Now for you to go on and basically say that those of us who disagree with the way things are going in chat nowadays are wanting to "play silly games"...~shakes my head~ Not nice. Everyone is entitled to their opinion...I am...and you are. I just find it odd that by disagreeing or stating a differing opinion, now suddenly we are all playing silly games?

Do I miss Library chat? Sure I do. I miss all my friends in there. I miss the fun. But I refuse to go back...until something changes. Until then I guess I will just gather up my friends and go play silly games with them in a different chatroom. ~rme~ Anyone up for a game of Monopoly? lol

[His_blizzard]

I have been avoiding replying to this thread because not only am I totally in the dark about what actually happened, but also because this whole thing makes me very sad and brings back very painful memories of a similar situation that occured in the chatter that Dragon and I hung out in.
So I will just say this. I am staying out of this altercation because I have made many good friendships in the chat and I am not willing to let that go. I will continue to use the chatroom as long as I am welcome. I will chat with those that I consider friends and ignore those that annoy me. I wish some of my friends that left chat would come in occasionally and hang out with me, but I respect their decision to no longer do so if that is what they feel they must do. Sigh..... I can't say it doesn't sadden me though.
The online society is no different than RL. We are no better behaved nor are we worse. It is just easier to cut ourselves off when we are on the internet. If we had to face each other everyday as we do in 3D, maybe this could have been resolved at least to the point that some agreed to disagree. Maybe not.... Just my copper Tarn worth tonight. I really do love you guys! **HUGS** "Peace" ~blizz~

[Tasker]

I was going to let this one go, but I just kept coming back to it and gritting my teeth. I'm actually surprised it hasn't been edited, but...~shrugs~

Tasker, your reasons for wanting to moderate a chat room are good and very admirable. I think the problem is that there are quite a few of us who have stopped enjoying chat and having fun with friends, especially if said friends are getting banned. If they deserve to get banned, then so be it. By all means, ban them. But, I will never, for one second, believe that Red deserved it. Now for you to go on and basically say that those of us who disagree with the way things are going in chat nowadays are wanting to "play silly games"...~shakes my head~ Not nice. Everyone is entitled to their opinion...I am...and you are. I just find it odd that by disagreeing or stating a differing opinion, now suddenly we are all playing silly games?

Do I miss Library chat? Sure I do. I miss all my friends in there. I miss the fun. But I refuse to go back...until something changes. Until then I guess I will just gather up my friends and go play silly games with them in a different chatroom. ~rme~ Anyone up for a game of Monopoly? lol

babt_girl(W) My sincerest appologies if my previous comment appeared to be directed at you. It was not. Reading back over my original post I can see I made the error of generalising way too much in an effort to avoid naming names.

The orginal one was about a small group that was started and has seem to have grown all due to the fact that someone complained to their S/O that they had been banned from chat and when in fact they HAD NOT been at the time and spiraled downhill from there. Unfortunatly others then jumped on the bandwagon, some for reasons of their own, some with an axe to grind, and some because they wanted to believe their friend.

The whole situation IMHO is sad as there have been members that have left of their own accord over this.

PMs without permission. Let a Mod know. I NEVER let that one pass without the PMer being at first given a polite warning, in the main room, that PMing without obtaining permission in the main room is not allowed. As sheepy has stated, we need to know who is doing it before we can deal with the problem.

One thing to bear in mind when you see a ban occur in chat. You do not know how many times that particular person may have been warned about their behaviour or breach of rules. Most warnings happen via PM. the room does not see this, nor should they. Peolpe do make mistakes, so they get a first polite warning in PM. The sole exception to this I use is for a first time PM without permission. This also lets everyone know and reminds them of that rule.

[Psynymph]

Unfortunatly others then jumped on the bandwagon, some for reasons of their own, some with an axe to grind, and some because they wanted to believe their friend.

The whole situation IMHO is sad as there have been members that have left of their own accord over this.

~sorry cariad~

i take offense to the "bandwagon" remark because, to me, it implies that the people that posted in this thread are merely following a general idea, not thinking on their own. and this is of course assuming you were speaking mainly of this particular thread, considering you are posting in it.

i had absolutely no intentions of spreading my opinion or convincing those of it. many people have asked what exactly this thread was about, or what was going on, and not a single time have i attempted to explain to them.

i started this thread solely to voice my opinion of a problem i perceived. i'm not particularly friendly with any of those that have been banned, not anymore friendly than i am/was with you, Tasker, AC and delia. i am not taking sides, except my own side.

And obviously, there is a real problem, for SO many people to feel basically the same as i do. i was just the first to actually publicly say something, well besides Red.

And as DTT pointed out, apparently there is SOME sort of problem that needs to be addressed seeing as so many people have said they will no longer be apart of the chat room.

So maybe instead of everyone getting offended, maybe they should simply take an unbiased step back and look at it from a different, impersonal point of view.

Maybe instead of getting angry at those of us that chose to maturely voice our opinions that aren't the same of yours, you should actually listen.

There is no easy solution to this problem. It's a pretty big, but also delicate problem. It involves individuals and i understand completely that in this situation it's very hard for sides not to get offended. i realize that people felt as if they were under attack.

But no one, from either "side", has been told not to voice their own concerns, suggestions, or opinions. Because that is exactly what this thread was made for.

And Tasker for the record, only maybe half of this was actually directed at you. The rest was at the rest of the individuals on the "other side".

[Jadetiger]

Sorry, I haven't been banned and I do not believe the topic was about banned members. It was about people choosing not to go to chat because of the actions of others.

Now if someone was banned and felt it it was not appropriate then they have the option of requesting it be reviewed by the site admin or I would hope there is a review process if someone feels they have been banned for no reason.

[sparkler]

when all the laughter dies in sorrow..............

[Guest 91108]

Goodgirl it was a long post for me. I have made several last few days in different places online. Gosh i hope that isn't a change for me .. I liek the darkness.

And...
Yes I have seen what you have said happen numerous times .. and it is not always a Dom who is offensive.