Fine line between bottom and sub?

[Ozme52]

A question: Do you mean by this that bottoming is always done is casual relationships, and not on ongoing ones? If so, why?

To me, this description reads to me like people I have met who are only into bondage, or only into pain, or only into both, but with no submission at all. Some can takes turns helping each other just fine, and some prefer a relationship. They are very rare indeed!

But it seems to be that the terms bottoming and topping indicates some sort of giving over control, which is why I personally find these two labels so hard to make use of.

No, I wasn't implying it was only in casual relationships. I think, within my definiton, a lot of "in the bedroom only" bdsm between long term couples is also topping and bottoming. And you're right, vis-a-vis your second statement, because not all bdsm is D/s. I think you're also agreeing with me, (or I with you,) in your third statement. Yes, control is given, but that doesn't equate to submission imo.

[thir]

. Yes, control is given, but that doesn't equate to submission imo.

I think we are at the (excuse me ) bottom line here: If giving control away is not submission, what is submission?

[Ozme52]

I think we are at the (excuse me ) bottom line here: If giving control away is not submission, what is submission?

A good question and perhaps it's a bit like art... I know it when I see it.

But I can give you several examples of control that definitely isn't submission. I give up control to airline pilots and bus drivers. I give up control to dentists and doctors (for the length of the visit at least.) I give up control to my masseuse... and I've even given some machines total control over me, elevators come to mind.

But none of that qualifies as submission...

[thir]

A good question and perhaps it's a bit like art... I know it when I see it.

But I can give you several examples of control that definitely isn't submission. I give up control to airline pilots and bus drivers. I give up control to dentists and doctors (for the length of the visit at least.) I give up control to my masseuse... and I've even given some machines total control over me, elevators come to mind.

But none of that qualifies as submission...

But we were in fact talking about bottoms giving up control to tops, weren't we?

[Ozme52]

But we were in fact talking about bottoms giving up control to tops, weren't we?

No, we were talking about the difference between bottoms and submissives, in both scenes and in the longer term relationships.